Proyector ideal para sala NO dedicada, ¿EXISTE?

A ver si puedes aportar los problemas que presenta según UHD el Lumagen con la nueva actualización , ya que a todos nos interesa saber detalladamente y no genéricamente/interesadamente donde falla.

Y soy de los que piensa que es un gran producto y avance.

Iniciado por RAGARSA

Unas gafas algo mas refinadas son la de la gama X30 -RS 45 eso si baratas tampoco son ja,ja

primera serie (o sea la tuya)


segunda serie


y una variante ahun mas guapa


y si todas estas no te gustan,puedes ponerte una de estas superpuestas te quedaran muy molonas ja,ja,ja

No serán de las chinas esas " je je je.

Las JVC salen por una leña me parece y la variante guapa " ( menuda preciosidad ) puf, esas cual son ? Y a cuanto ?

Pd : http://gizmologia.com/files/2010/04/...-steampunk.jpg estas Molan !

Ya sabes congo que Tom Huffman es extremadamente importante cuando "interesa" pero ...ay amigo! cuando escribe cositas como esta:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ran
Just to get this straight. It seems that your on/off measurements for the 9000 are considerably lower than other reviews I read which stated more in the 18,000 range.
They also seem far from the measured on/off for the RS40.Am I missing something?

TomHuffman:
Yes and no. Yes, in that the 18,000:1 figure is almost certainly obtained by using the dynamic iris, which I did not use. As I said, the numbers I quoted were native contrast. No, in that the RS40 has even higher native contrast, but to my eyes for the vast majority of material the difference between the two is visually negligible in this regard. Speaking only for myself and my own perceptual biases, I preferred the Mits image because of the DLP-like snap and clarity.

Also, the SMPTE standard for a reference projector is 4000:1. In my view, any projector that provides that much native contrast or better with adequate brightness offers excellent performance.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1254103/ne...cos-panels/270

Ahora ya sabes porqué algunos no han visto en su vida un buen proyector barato calibrado de gama baja y sólo venden humo .

Un saludete

Iniciado por UHD

Y dale con que edito mis mensajes, poned los mensajes que he editado y los argumentos que he cambiado, y así veremos si he cambiado algo o no.



Va mos a ver. Yo no vendo nada, ni calibraciones, ni Lumagen, ni sondas, ni nada de nada, y ya no sé en que idioma decirlo.

Que manía os ha entrado con el rollo del HD1 de JVC y Lumagen. De esto ya se habló, y como ya dije y argumenté, y ahora voy a repetir por última vez, la CMS de Lumagen era más lineal a la hora de trabajar el gamut porque lo hacía en RGB, y que la mayoría de visualizadores lo hacen en HSL, o lo que es lo mismo, hue, saturación y luminosidad, y trabajar el espacio de color en HSL no dá resultados tan lineales como en RGB, que es como trabaja la CMS de Lumagen, en RGB. Lo que estoy diciendo es fácil de comprobar. Si un dispositivo de visualización tiene sus controles de CMS en. Luminosidad, saturacion y tono, esa CMS es HSL, no RGB, y en ese caso los controles de un Lumagen de estos pueden ser más lineales, pero claro, como opináis sin haber visto ni probado...así os va.



iScan DUO vs. Lumagen XD for CMS?

Hay muchos más hilos y reviews donde se habla de esto, y si tuvieras conocimientos sobre este tema, no centraríais el debate en lo bueno o malo que es un Lumagen, lo centraríais en los sitemas que dichos equipos y la mayoría de visualizadores incorpora en sus CMS, o sea, RGB ó HLS, y en cuanto supiérais cuales son las diferencias de trabajar en RGB o HLS, el debate quedaría automaticamente zanjado, así que no se trata de despotricar de Lumagen, se trata de debatir sobre RGB ó HLS, y sintiéndolo mucho, hay no hay debate que valga, solo hay debate si se ignoran las diferencias entre RGB y HLS, que es lo que os pasa a vosotros dos. Documéntate prmero sobre como funcionan los distintos tipos de tecnologías para la gentión del color (CMS) y después debatimos sobre sus posibles diferencias, aunque mucho me temo, que en cuanto te documentes, debate zanjado, igual que con el APL.

saludos.

Siempre hay que estar dándote información porque tú solo cuentas las cosas a medias, yo ya te dije que en un hd1 no se puede dejar bien las saturaciones, aunque tu afirmabas que el color era mejor que en un hc4000 (Todavía me sigo partiendo y eso que tú eres ISF, Juas.)y despues te sacaste lo del hls, el hls no es más que el tipo de cms del proyector o dispositivo de visualización y no funciona de forma lineal, pero eso no quiere decir que tocando con un cms en rgb te quede bien, puesto que depende de lo lineal que sea el dispositivo utilizado, por lo tanto no garantiza que se solucione el problema, y yo te argumenté que era mejor comprarse un visualizador que quedase correctamente calibrado, incluidas las saturaciones puesto que era demasiado caro como para invertir en un proyector mas lumagen y que si dedicabas todo el presupuesto a comprar un buen proyector que lo hiciera bien más un buen reproductor era mejor solución, y tú erre que erre, y ahora sigues intentado dar a entender que tú ya argumentaste y nosotros nos quedamos sin palabras, al igual que siempre alardeas de lo del APL que no sé a qué se refiere, pero tú a mí no me has zanjado ningún tema todavía, siempre es más bien al revés.
Aquí tienes lo que dice el director de lumagen y como ves todos los dispositivos utilizan cms hls y el por qué ahora si me parece interesante el lumagen, aunque sigue siendo caro:

Une petite explication de Jim Peterson, le président de LUMAGEN: http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/in ... #msg_19273

Jim Peterson a écrit:
To my knowledge, all consumer level displays/projectors use the HLS color space for CMS. The HLS (or HSL if you prefer) is a non-linear color space and so is not mathematically correct for this calibration -- it's just easier to implement, which is why it is used I suspect. This means that even with a display/projector with linear response, using HLS color space means only the calibrated primary/secondary points are correct. Points in between are not correct.

The Radiance 8-point Gamut CMS uses a linear-Gamma RGB color palette. This means that if the display/projector has a linear response it can do an excellent job of calibrating CMS. However, if the display/projector has a non-linear response, such as red-push or green-push, interior points in the color cube need to be adjusted for correct response. With the 8-point Gamut, one can use Color Hue and their offset to mitigate red and green push, but this must be done by eye looking at real material since there is no easy way to automate it. It is tough to get this just right.


The new 125 point (5x5x5) linear-Gamma RGB color palette can correct for this and other non-linear responses, and should certainly give better performance than anything available in a consumer projector or display.

Note that the Radiance 11/21-point Grayscale is calibrated first. Then the 125 point CMS palette is calibrated. They are logically in series with the CMS first followed by grayscale

The New Lumagen 125-Color Calibration Technology - Page 2 - Les logiciels de calibration

Supongo que ahora si te das cuenta de la importancia de las saturaciones y el porque yo insisto tanto en esto a la hora de elegir un proyector o tv, fíjate lo contentos que están los propietarios de un rs45 y una vt50 dicen que nunca habian visto tan bien sus visualizadores despues de pasar por el lumagen con los 125 puntos.

Sobre que no vendes nada y demás, pues sencillamente entonces no cuadra mucho tu actitud en los foros y tu interés en desinformar a los foreros o tergiversar las cosas según te parece, tampoco voy a perder tiempo buscando donde dijiste una cosa y después lo arreglaste para decir otra puesto que no hay constancia de ello y es tu palabra contra la mía, hay que reconocer que eres muy hábil para la tergiversación y el engaño muy típico de un tendero aunque no lo sea piensa en dedicarte a ello pues es tu vocación.

Un saludo.

Ya veo, pues yo he encontrado algo mucho mejor, del mismísimo Tom Huffman, que creo que es Calibrador profesional ISF ¿no? y según UHD todo lo que diga un calibrador profesional es OBJETIVO, pues bien vamos al lío


Post 274

Tom Huffman dice lo ss, se ve que es una persona sería/humilde y que distingue lo más básico, es decir, objetividad/subjetividad

La imagen es muy fuerte y fresco y con buena profundidad, un poco más nítida Creo que los JVCs, aunque esto es una apreciación subjetiva.

Definitivamente UHD no da ni una

Por cierto, qué curioso los comentarios de Art Fierman de proyectorreview de hace sólo un pocas semanas:

Greetings Projector Fans – in a couple of month’s Sony’s shiny new VPL-HW50ES should hit the streets. This VPL-HW50ES is a new projector that slides into the lineup above the HW30ES and way below the VPL-VW95ES.

Let’s position it first. The price tag will be $3999 or was it $3995? The HW50ES will come with a spare lamp for the money. The VPL-HW50ES, will be available through local dealers, of course, but also be a select couple of authorized online resellers as well.

So, back to the title above. I’m of course, not implying that Sony normally doesn’t get it right, after all, in this last year, their VPL-VW95ES – their flagship 2K projector, tied for our Best In Class award $3500-$10,000, while the VPL-VW1000ES at only $24999 is simply the best projector I’ve ever had the pleasure of viewing and reviewing, and really earned our Outstanding Product of the Year.”

So, what’s got me so enthused about the HW50ES?

It just seems like a major step up from the HW30ES for not too bad a price difference. Better brightness, blacker blacks, 2K to 4K upscaling essentially. (Only 2K panels, but as many of you know, there are real benefits even if, of course, if a true 4K projector can do better with either 2K or 4K content. Still, their Reality engine does the trick. At this point, I’d have to say, the best use of a detail enhancement engine I’ve seen in anything under $10K. I got to see it side by side vs. an Epson 5010, and was really impressed. Essentially you can punch the Epson 5010′s Super-Resolution to the top setting of 5, and you get similar detail enhancement overall, but at least the 5010 is not as clean when pushed that hard. Of course I’m comparing against a last year’s model, still, it looked really good.

Also of note, out of the box picture quality looks very good, obviously very close to D65 – 6500K, the desired standard. Apparently there’s improved color controls as well.

Did I mention that it looks like the HW30ES, which is to say, manual zoom and focus, so about the only thing missing is a lens memory type feature (found on the bigger Sony’s) for those wanting a 2.35:1 screen. That said, as you would expect, the Sony can accept an anamorphic lens, no sled needed. That will take the price up a bit should you want that widescreen, but not enough more to break the bank, in all likelihood.

Sony did a great job of demoing it. I’ll try to write later (from memory) about how it looked compared to last year’s top of the line $12,000 JVC… Let’s just say dealers in the demo room were almost stunned that the HW50ES could in terms of picture quality, take on the JVC and not be embarrassed. Not surprising.

So, folks that’s the short version. The projector should be available in 2 months so looking forward to having it do battle with the classic projectors in the price range, as well as a couple thousands more that I expect it will beat.

This is a great addition to the Sony lineup. As I was very aware and had seen several other projectors (Panasonic, Epson) before the show, this was the one new projector at the show that dazzled me the most.

Hang in there, it’s going to be a blast – plenty of new home theater projectors this year to get exited about. -art

The Art of Home Theater Projectors » Blog Archive » Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector – Sony Gets It Right

Incluso las primeras tomas en contacto publicada hace pocos días tienen buena pinta:

Greetings, Let’s talk some more, about Sony’s VPL-HW50ES projector.


The HW50ES Projector - Picture Quality is Excellent!
Well, you’ve probably seen some of my previous home theater projector blogs from, and post CEDIA 2012. If so, you probably think I have led you to believe that one of the most impressive projector values I saw there is Sony’s new HW50ES – it’s full name, of course: VPL-HW50ES. If so, you got it right.

I’ve had the VPL-HW50ES here since Tuesday evening, except for the 24 hours away at Mike’s for calibration. I’ve got 20 hours of viewing so far.

BTW I believe this unit is one of the two used in Sony’s “shoot-out” against the Epson 5010 and the JVC RS65 I believe, (last year’s $11,999 projector with eShift) that they were showing to dealers (and press).

Before I get into this, a note about 4K… To date, I’ve reviewed exactly 1 4K projector. That’s the Sony VPL-VW1000ES our Outstanding Product of the year. All this upscaling to 4K, upverting to 4K, or just plain calling all these other projectors “4K” is simply NOT 4K!

Here’s the simple test. One that all the others fail, including eShift with its physically shifting the pixels a fraction of a pixel diagonally and then firing again.

Imagine true 4K – or perhaps the 4K equivalent of 1080p: 3840×2160. Now go pick out exactly 4 pixels in a square. Make the top left one white, the top right red, the bottom left blue, and the bottom right green.

It’s simple. In true 4K, you end up with exactly that. white and three discreet colors. In any other scheme, you end up with a mess, because, folks, instead of 4 pixels, you only have one to work with. so, depending on the algorithm, you’ll end up with various shades of gray or faint color.

I will blog or video, or write about this in depth. I really hate the 4K designator, showing up on LCDTVs etc. I believe I may have used it a couple of times in previous blogs about this projector without constantly defining what real 4K is.

Let’s say all this other stuff, is really ‘detail enhancement’ but that doesn’t sound as sexy as 4K.

Hey we all hate keystone correction as it softens the image and destroys 1:1 pixel mapping for precision viewing. These are essentially doing the same thing, with different goals in mind. yes they can give you a much sharper looking image, just remember all that fancy software still has to have an offsetting trade-off.

And that brings us back to the Sony VPL-HW50ES. Let me start with some basic info obtained since receiving this projector:

Yes, the HW50ES is definitely brighter than the less expensive HW30ES and even the more expensive VPL-VW95ES. Mike measured best mode (zoom at mid-point, of course) at a massive 992 lumens!

Brightest mode was just shy of 1300 lumens, but for best bright mode, Bright TV measured 1131 lumens. That may not be in the league of some flame throwers like the Epson and Panasonic projectors, but it is much brighter than any of those comparing calibrated best modes.

Good news. 3D brightness seems to be way up, thanks to apparently glasses, new algorithms, etc. Note, these glasses are not compatible with Sony 3D LCDTVs to the best of my knowledge. Glasses are rechargeable and come with a USB connector on one end, and a small plug on the other that goes into the glasses behind a soft cover that you move out of the way to expose the socket.

I did watch 3 Musketeers most of the way through, projecting about 100″ diagonal. I was very pleased to find the Sony to be reasonably bright at that size. Given, I had the glasses in the second brightest setting, but even there, the Sony looked rather clean in terms of crosstalk. I will say I was very impressed with the 3D on that setting. I’ve yet to go “hunting” crosstalk, like so many of you like to do, but I will for the full review. I did try Monster House for 5 minutes projecting 124″ diagonal 2.35:1. Definitely could have used a bit more brightness there. Oh, I can watch it, but I have that group of friends I like to bring in for opinions on such things, and I’m sure two of them have no interest in watching 3D with the brightness at that size (maybe if they will watch with the glasses setting at 4 – brightest.)

The picture looks great. Even my wife commented.

Black levels are very good. Better than the Epson 5010/6010? That’s probably the question many of you want to hear the answer to. You’ll have to wait. I could conjecture right now, but I’m saving that for the full review. I have yet to put the Sony VPL-HW30ES side by side against the Epson HC5010 I have here. That’s probably going to happen tomorrow night or Monday.

Reality Creation – Sony’s upscaling or upverting – or up something to “4k”. All the talk doesn’t matter, it’s not 4K. What it is, however, is rather stunning dynamic detail/sharpness enhancement.

This I can say about it. I consider the goals of Reality Creation to be similar to Epson’s Super-Resolution. That said, unless there’s a real improvement in Super-Resolution on the new 5020 and 6020 Epson projectors, then I think you can count on Sony having the better implementation.

The core difference – you can get more apparent detail/sharpness out of the Sony before artifacts start giving it an artificial look. In other words you can get a sharper seeming image out of the Sony before you start noticing things you really do not want to be noticing. Enough said for now.

I’m mostly keeping Reality Creation in the 35 and under settings level. (out of 100), yet it’s still creating an impressively crisp image. If I understand correctly (waiting for a white paper), the Sony’s algorithm is smart – not just the usual upscaling type processing, but rather clever. I believe it uses facial identification, etc. That is, the Sony projector tends to know what it’s trying to enhance, so that it doesn’t go over the top on things that would be obvious.

Manual zoom and focus – as usual, very little drop between wide-angle and telephoto. A good amount of vertical and horizontal lens shift. The same or similar (very good) remote control, from last year.

The panning problem detected on some older Sony’s (seen in a pan of the neighborhood in the movie RED, is not there. It’s a tough pan, but this Sony projector is comparable to other good projectors in this regard. That’s still a tough pan, for any projector but, for example, the older VPL-VW90ES had a bitch of a time with that scene. Not so, this VPL-HW50ES projector.

No CMS per se. No problem. there are at least 8 “preset” color space modes for the individual colors. Basically Sony has giving you many choices, instead of a set of controls.

Mike’s commented when calibrating it, that basically there’s no need for the CMS, several of the provided Color Space modes are excellent. For the calibration he settled on the color space Sony calls BT.709. Of note, Color Space 1, 2, and Wide 3, are all expanded color spaces.

At the end of the day, Sony’s strengths are overall color/picture quality, and for those that like, an exceptionally detailed and sharp looking image. Brightness is also a major plus with, really, only the 3LCD projectors able to significantly out muscle the HW50ES when you need maximum brightness, and they can’t do that in their calibrated modes.

If your thing is by far, movies first, dedicated or at least very good light controlled room, this Sony’s going to be really, really tough to beat. As big a fan as I tend to be of the Epson 5010, I suspect the new 5020′s biggest advantage over this Sony will be the much lower selling price, and the maximum brightness, rather than an advantage in picture quality. We’ll know, soon enough.

That’s all I have for you right now. Ah, a thought about 3D movies. The 3 Musketeers isn’t much of a great movie, but it is a great movie for viewing 3D. That, Hugo, Tron, Monster House, Alice, and one of Stephen Lowes movies – such as Tahiti 3D Ultimate Wave or Legends of Flight, and my new copy of Avatar 3D (finally) pretty much represent the 3D content I’ll be focusing on in commenting about 3D performance.

OK, give me 4-5 days to do my photo shoots, my side by sides, lots more viewing (football all day tomorrow), and get the full review published, with the other goodies you are waiting for, including how good those black levels are…

Thanks! -art

The Art of Home Theater Projectors » Blog Archive » Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector Review – In Process – A First Look!

Esperemos a que lo analicen como se debe, para que no haya guerra subjetivista ... pero seguro que al michel le molan los comentarios


Un saludete

Iniciado por MACH 5150

No serán de las chinas esas " je je je.

Las JVC salen por una leña me parece y la variante guapa " ( menuda preciosidad ) puf, esas cual son ? Y a cuanto ?

Pd : http://gizmologia.com/files/2010/04/...-steampunk.jpg estas Molan !

aqui te dejo el enlace creo que la tienda es de Zaragoza guapas si que son si tambien caritas je,je

Gafas 3D JVC PK-AG2BE | Tienda equipos sonido e imagen profesional .:. NOVOMUSICA

Iniciado por RAGARSA

aqui te dejo el enlace creo que la tienda es de Zaragoza guapas si que son si tambien caritas je,je

Gafas 3D JVC PK-AG2BE | Tienda equipos sonido e imagen profesional .:. NOVOMUSICA

Ragar.

Estoy buscando unas fafas 3D para JVC, tú que has probado varias. ¿Cuales recomiendas?

Iniciado por atcing

Por cierto, qué curioso los comentarios de Art Fierman de proyectorreview de hace sólo un pocas semanas:




The Art of Home Theater Projectors » Blog Archive » Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector – Sony Gets It Right

Incluso las primeras tomas en contacto publicada hace pocos días tienen buena pinta:



The Art of Home Theater Projectors » Blog Archive » Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector Review – In Process – A First Look!

Esperemos a que lo analicen como se debe, para que no haya guerra subjetivista ... pero seguro que al michel le molan los comentarios


Un saludete

¿Te refieres a qué estará en la quedada de Michelpladur el Sony HW50?, menudo nivelazo

Iniciado por MACH16

Aquí tienes lo que dice el director de lumagen y como ves todos los dispositivos utilizan cms hls y el por qué ahora si me parece interesante el lumagen, aunque sigue siendo caro:
.

Todos los dispositivos NO utilizan CMS HLS. Los paneles PDP Samsung serie D del año pasado utilzan sistema gestión del color RGB, no HLS..

Iniciado por UHD

Ragar.

Estoy buscando unas fafas 3D para JVC, tú que has probado varias. ¿Cuales recomiendas?

Pues entre la originales de JVC la primera serie la PK-AG1 y las volfoni 2 que tengo,me gustan mas las de JVC ya que se pueden plegar las patillas y son mas comodas,en visionado difieren poco con las volfoni,la segunda generacion de JVC la PK.AG2 dicen que son algo mejores que las primeras mas ligeras y se cargan por USB ahora estoy por ver como funcionan el pack de Optoma que dicen son mas claritas y ligeras que las anteriores,segun propietarios de Sony vw95 y hw30 eliminan la doble imagen de sus Sony y son menos cansinas en el visionado,al parecer Saboke las ha instalado en el X30 y funcionan,bien si nos lee podia poner su opinion y experiencia.

Iniciado por RAGARSA

Pues entre la originales de JVC la primera serie la PK-AG1 y las volfoni 2 que tengo,me gustan mas las de JVC ya que se pueden plegar las patillas y son mas comodas,en visionado difieren poco con las volfoni,la segunda generacion de JVC la PK.AG2 dicen que son algo mejores que las primeras mas ligeras y se cargan por USB ahora estoy por ver como funcionan el pack de Optoma que dicen son mas claritas y ligeras que las anteriores,segun propietarios de Sony vw95 y hw30 eliminan la doble imagen de sus Sony y son menos cansinas en el visionado,al parecer Saboke las ha instalado en el X30 y funcionan,bien si nos lee podia poner su opinion y experiencia.

Todo esto es muy interesante. Seguiré de cerca este tema, a ver si pillo unas buenas gafas.

saludos.

Iniciado por CoNgO

¿Te refieres a qué estará en la quedada de Michelpladur el Sony HW50?, menudo nivelazo

No lo se. Lo que sí se es que cuando se realiza una prueba conmutada entre proyectores calibrados a mismo estandard, quedando dentro en norma o muy cerca de ésta las diferencias visibles se reducen muchísimo más de lo que "los intereses comerciales proclaman a los cuatro vientos" aún tratándose de proyectores de precios dispares.

Un saludete

Iniciado por CoNgO

¿Te refieres a qué estará en la quedada de Michelpladur el Sony HW50?, menudo nivelazo

CONGO: nivel de campanillas mas bien, proyectores que seguramente esten en la barrera de 3000 euros o rondando algunos incluso mas,y procesadores de otros 2000 euros casi na ja,ja no aptos para todos los bolsillos.