EL ANILLO DE WAGNER EN SACD MULTICANAL.....

He leído comentarios muy positivos sobre esta producción en la revista Gramophone. No obstante los cantantes no son conocidos en Europa y pocas pistas más tengo sobre estas versiones. Creo haber leído un comentario sobre la acústica resonante que recogen las grabaciones, pero no recuerdo bien; a ver si mañana tengo un rato para investigar un poco.

Saludos

Espero ansioso tus comentarios.

Creo que es una obra a tener en cuenta para los que que perseguimos algo más que la interpretación en sí misma.

Saludos

Sisco

He pedido las dos primeras obras

Os contaré cuando me lleguen

Un saludo cordial

Sisco

La verdad que os admiro , yo soy incapaz de zamparme una opera entera de Wagner, y desde luego meno aún "el anillo" :-[, es mi asignatura pendiente (junto a la Zarzuela).

Saludos,y no se me olvidó lo pendiente, Pernath, como dijo aquel: "estamos en ello" (lease con acento tejano)

Lucky,que soy novato en esto de las Operas,pero tengo un gusanillo con Wagner. Es como una intuición.
Creo que me entenderé con el teutón......

De todas maneras,voy a empezando poco a poco. Primero sus coros más representativos;después sus piezas orquestales más deslumbrantes.Por ahora esto me ha encantado.
Ahora empezaré con el anillo. Por eso quiero algo realmente audiófilo,pues si es espeso, con finura parece que puede entrar mejor.

Ya os contaré mi experiencia Wagneriana.

Estoy consiguiendo el anillo de Solti,el Tristán e Isolda de Solti,el Tannhauser de Solti......a ver como los digiero.

Me ha cogido un gusanillo repentino con todo lo que le rodea,y sobre todo a raíz del viaje que estuve viendo a su amado Bayreuth.

Saludos

Sisco

El Anillo hay que escucharlo con cierto sentido de ocasión, hay que destinarle un día o varios domingos por la mañana por ejemplo, hacerse con un buen libreto bilingüe español-aleman y escucharlo como quien sigue un cuento fantástico con banda sonora. Otra forma de entrarle es a través de las versiones en DVD, por ejemplo la de James Levine.

Sisco:

He estado mirando las críticas de la revista Gramophone sobre ese Anillo en SACD que has comprado. Te resumo.

De la primera jornada, o sea la Valquiria, dicen:

"La primera producción de un ciclo completo del Anillo en Australia, en noviembre de 2004, fue en todo sentido un evento emocionante y un gran logro para la ópera de Adelaida ...

... aunque la grabación SACD presenta las voces en una posición muy adelantada en perjuicio de la presencia e impacto orquestal (el crítico dice que la ha escuchado en estéreo, y quizás, aunque no lo dice, sólo ha escuchado la capa pcm), Asher Fisch nos revela su gran experiencia como director wagneriano en una versión con buenos tempi y que logra un balance efectivo entre dramatismo y formalismo.

... en cuanto a las voces, la mejor conocida es Lisa Gasteen, la Brünnhilde actual del Covent Garden de Londres, quien hace alarde de un especial poderío y belleza tímbrica en los registros más graves durante su encuentro con Siegmund en el Acto 2. El registro agudo es menos seguro pero lo usa de manera efectiva. Los gemelos welsungos (es decir Sieglinde y Siegmund) son también una pareja impresionante.

El Wotan del baritono John Bröcheler sin embargo no convence del todo y no está 100% a la altura de lo que se espera de los grandes Wotan de la discografía.

En resumen, esta Valquiria es un registro de considerables virtudes".

Saludos

Continuo.

En la crítica del prólogo del Anillo, o sea El Oro del Rin, el mismo crítico de Gramophone citado dice:

La segunda entrega del Anillo de Adelaida 2004 presenta las mismas virtudes y defectos de la Valquiria. El sonido es resonante pero "homogéneo" (????), las voces adelantadas y los detalles orquestales a veces se pierden. Los efectos espaciales son raros y no siempre logrados. Por ejemplo las tres hijas del Rin se oyen muy distantes en la última escena.

En el lado positivo hay aqui canto wagneriano del bueno, sin que se aprecie ninguna debilidad digna de mencionar entre los cantantes.

El Oro del Rin representa un mayor desafío para un director que la Valquiria, y Asher Fisch está a la altura, en especial se agradece que evite exageraciones y portentos innecesarios.

Este Oro del Rin es más potente que conmovedor y no desafía a las grandes versiones discográficas, si bien algunas intervenciones vocales son notables y los wagnerianos estarán encantados de oirlas."

Saludos

Mozart,gracias............


Una review que me parece muy seria y realmente "consensuada" es esta............En la misma página de sa-cd.net
La comparan con la de Solti,la cual la marcan como LA REFERENCIA

Te copio las opiniones que creo que son muy válidas.

Site review by Christine Tham June 2, 2006 Performance: Sonics (S/MC): /
It is not often that a reviewer gets to review an album that represents recording history in the making. This 4 disc set represents the first installment of the world's first multi-channel Hybrid SA-CD release of the complete Wagner Ring Cycle. Not only that, but the recordings are based on live performances from the first truly Australian production of the Ring, staged by State Opera South Australia in Adelaide in November-December 2004. I was fortunate enough to be one of the attendees of the well-received performances (third and final cycle).

For those of you not familiar with Wagner's Ring, it is a set of four operas (or, more properly, three operas plus a two and a half hours operatic prelude) composed by Richard Wagner. The prelude is entitled Das Rheingold, and the following operas are called Die Walküre, Siegfried and Götterdämmerung. Together, all four are collectively called Der Ring des Nibelungen (or The Nibelung's Ring) but is commonly referred to as the "Ring cycle" or even simply "the Ring." The story is about a magical ring that allows it's owner to dominate and rule the world, and it's impact on gods, men, giants and dwarves who tried to possess it.

Everything about the Ring is gigantic in scope and scale. A full performance of all four works takes over 15 hours and requires extraordinary stamina on the part of the singers and orchestra (not to mention the audience!). The orchestration is so rich and complex that many opera houses do not have a pit large enough to hold all the musicians. A complete performance of the Ring demands a lot from the opera-goer: not only is it very emotionally overwhelming but it's also intellectually and musically stimulating, with a full appreciation requiring familiarity with dozens of lietmotifs (recurring themes or melodies often tied to a particular character, motive, action or even abstract concepts that are weaved into all the operas).

As can be imagined, it takes a very brave and dedicated opera company to attempt to stage the entire Ring cycle. What is amazing about the Adelaide Ring Cycle 2004 is that it represents the second successful Ring cycle performed in Australia, both by a relatively small opera company in one of Australia's smaller capital cities. The first attempt (in 1998) was largely based on a French production, but the 2004 version (which forms the basis of this recording) is a genuine Australian production (costing over A$15 million partially funded by the State government as well as the Australia Council), with sets and costumes sourced from all over the country, and a young(ish), energetic, mostly Australian cast under the baton of Israeli conductor Asher Fisch and the direction of Elke Neidhardt.

The recording itself is equally ambitious, involving 65 microphones, over 60 hours of captured performances of 129 orchestral players, 70 chorus members, 27 principal singers (of which all but 3 are Australian), on a SADiE PCM-H64 multi-channel recorder/editor and a SADiE DSD8 mastering and authoring system. It is the largest single recording project undertaken to date in Australia, by a relatively small and obscure label (Melba Recordings, an offshoot of the Melba Foundation, partially supported by grants from the Australian government).

The release of a complete Ring Cycle on SA-CD is a defining moment for the fledging high resolution audio format, and parallels the first stereo recording of the Ring Cycle in the 1950s-60s (an ambitious studio undertaking by legendary producer John Culshaw on the Decca label, featuring the Vienna Philharmonic under Sir Georg Solti) which proved to the world that the Long Playing record was a viable audio format for large scale operas.

Comparisons with the Solti recording are inevitable, and Melba seems to be almost inviting or challenging the listener to put the two side by side. I suspect it's no coincidence that very first release in the Melba set also happens to the the last opera released in the Decca/Solti set. I own the Solti Die Walküre on LP as well as CD (both the version released in the 80s as well as the more recent 1997 remaster) so I am very familiar with the Solti version.

But enough of the hype. How does the recording sound? How does it compare to the live performances? And how does it compare to the Solti version?

I must admit, the opening bars of the Act I Prelude had me worried. The overall tone was a bit darker than Solti, and the performance seemed a bit subdued and lacking in excitement compared to the electrifying strings in Solti's dramatic opening. The pacing seemed somewhat ponderous and lackadaisical.

Fortunately, the opening is probably the weakest part of the whole recording, so if you are tempted to switch off at this point, don't. The orchestra picks up after the initial drum rolls (which interestingly, are also panned to the rear speakers on the multi-channel version) and by the time Siegmund sings the opening lines of the opera ("Wes Herd dies auch sei, hier muß ich rasten") my frown had turned into a smile.

Quite simply, this has to be the clearest and most well-balanced operatic recording I have heard. There's a sense of infinite depth and detail, with a nice reverb and ambience around the singers, and I definitely had the feeling that I could hear every single instrument in the orchestra, plus every nuance of expression in both voices and orchestra. Part of the detail no doubt comes from close miking of the orchestra, but I was pleasantly surprised by how much detail and depth there were in the voices, particularly since the recording captures them with a lot of reverb.

The overall recording level is fairly low, which is a good sign, for it means little or no dynamic compression has been applied. I would guess there's around 20dB of headroom between average and peak levels.

Curiously, in terms of imaging, the voices tend to float around eye level but the orchestra (particularly the strings) seem to sound as if they are emanating from the floor. Of course, this would approximately match the relative positioning of the singers vs the orchestra at the Adelaide Festival Theatre. I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised by a recording matching reality, but I didn't think the relative imaging would come through in a multi-mic recording.

I was also surprised by how quiet the background noise was (I remembered ambience noise in the hall was relatively high during the performances). Apart from various footfalls and scuffling as the characters move about on the stage, and the occasional subdued cough (I had a sneaking suspicion some of them could well be mine), the recording was eerily quiet and I wonder whether some noise removal processing had been applied.

Sometimes I think the engineers may have gone overboard in avoiding background noise. There is a loud raucous cheer of approval from the audience at the conclusion of the Ride of the Valkyries in Act III Scene I - in the recording, you can hardly hear them. Similarly at during Wotan's farewell to Brünhilde in the final scene, most of us in the audience could hear the hiss and crackle of the very real Magic Fire that Wotan conjured around his daughter (and indeed, feel the heat!), but on the recording there is nothing, nada, zip.

In the multi-channel version, all 5.1 speakers appear to be utilized, with all front three speakers actively used to reproduce the bulk of the music, and the rear speakers used to subtly extend the soundstage to envelop the listener. The subwoofer is used to subtly enhance the low end (and there's a few instances in the recording with significant low frequency usage). Discrete panning to the rear speakers are limited to the occasional drum roll, or off stage voices (in the case of the Valkyries in some parts of Act III), so those that can't stand instruments and voices coming from behind them can rest assured that they won't be offended.

The stereo versions (DSD and CD) are more conventionally mixed. Overall, I prefer the multi-channel version - I like the enveloping ambience. The CD version noticeably loses a lot of the detail in the instruments and dampens a lot of the reverb in the voices, but is still very listenable. I ripped the CD tracks onto my mp3 player and they sounded quite enjoyable even on earbuds.

How does the recording compare to the live performances? Very well, I must say. The venue is wider than it is deep, and the extremely wide soundstage in the multi-channel version captures the spatiousness well. I may even go as far as to say the recording sounded better than being there! I am certain I did not hear as much detail in the hall as I can in my living room, but I must also point out I was not sitting anywhere near the best seats (which were very pricey, and sold out by the time I bought tickets). On a good system, I would assert the recording faithfully captures (perhaps with a touch of hyper-realism) exactly what someone who paid thousands of dollars for the best seats would probably have heard.

Don't try playing the Solti version after playing this recording. The Solti version was a great recording in its day, and still is (with the LP version sounding noticeably better than either of the two CD remasterings) but will sound a bit shrill and boomy compared to this recording, with noticeable loss of detail due to harmonic distortion from the analog master tapes.

OK, but what about the performance? Is this a better interpretation of the opera than the Solti version? I have a soft spot for the Solti version, and I suspect it will forever remain the definitive reference performance of the Ring in my books, but there is a lot to like in this recording, and I may even suggest it's probably a better introduction to the Ring for a neophyte.

The first thing that struck me when comparing the two is that they represent very different approaches to Wagner's music. Solti has great dramatic flair, and impeccable timing, and under his baton Die Walküre reminds me a bit of a big budget action movie - I can almost imagine exciting chase scenes between Hunding and Siegmund, plus a brilliant swordfight, and the Ride of the Valkyries conjures up the kind of thrill that Industrial Light and Magic would supply. However, the singing is rather uneven in the Solti version, with some singers clearly past their prime.

In comparison, Asher Fisch's version transforms Die Walküre into an emotional, rather than a physical or intellectual, experience. We don't necessarily see the action, but we certainly feel and emphatise with the characters. It transforms the opera into a very human drama rather than a mythical epic. We sense the longing of two soul mates, the jealousy of a husband, the frustration of a god bound by his own rules and prevented from doing what he wants to do, the outrage of a goddess shocked by what she believes is morally wrong, and above all the love, hope, confusion, fear and stubbornness of a daughter who feels she is saving her father whilst disobeying him.

Asher's pacing is a lot slower than Solti, which doesn't work in the preludes to Acts I and III, where the orchestra seems to plod along, but very rewarding for the love duet at the end of Act I and the father and daughter farewell scene in Act III - both of which brought tears to my face.

I almost feel that the Vienna Philharmonic is the real star of the Solti version, but in the Adelaide Ring the orchestra is very much in the background, and the singers are the focus of the performance. This is probably one of the strongest and most well-balanced cast I have come across in recent years (and here I am mainly comparing to the recent ENO production of the Ring at the Coliseum, plus Opera Australia's production of Die Walküre in Sydney several years ago). Both John Bröcheler (as Wotan) and Lisa Gasteen (as Brünhilde) are superb, with lots of stamina and energy to last entire Acts without faltering, and we are very sympathetically drawn to Stuart Skelton as Siegmund and Deborah Riedel as Sieglinde. For me, Elizabeth Campbell's performance as Fricka was probably the weakest link, as her rather thin voice does not carry the depth of an imperious goddess that I would have liked.

Melba Recordings is smart to release Die Walküre as the first installment in the cycle. It is the most accessible and listenable of the operas, and perhaps not by coincidence was the last opera released in the Solti version. It is due to be released by Melba in mid June 2006, followed by Das Rheingold (October 2006), Siegfriend (February 2007) and Götterdammerung (June 2007). This review is based on an advance copy supplied by Melba Recordings in mid May 2006.

Copyright © 2006 Christine Tham and SA-CD.net


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Y ......................

Site review by Christine Tham November 12, 2006 Performance: Sonics (S/MC): /
This is the second installment of Melba Recordings' staggered release of what will eventually be the first multi-channel Hybrid SA-CD set of the complete Wagner Ring Cycle, based on live performances from the first truly Australian production of the Ring, staged by State Opera South Australia in Adelaide in November-December 2004.

The first title released was Die Walküre in June 2006 and previously reviewed by myself on this site.

Das Rheingold is different from the other operas in the Ring cycle, considered by some to be an operatic prelude to the whole cycle rather than full-scale opera. It contains only one act divided into five scenes and is intended to be performed over two and a half hours with no intervals, so requires stamina from the performers and a good attention span from the audience. Quite a lot happens, setting the context for the subsequent operas, ranging from Alberich stealing the gold from the Rhinemaidens in the opening scene to nothing less than the Gods entering Valhalla accompanied by suitably dramatic music at the close.

Yet I have seen more than my fair share of disappointing performances. Because much of the material is expository in nature, there is a tendency for productions to lack energy. Fortunately the Adelaide 2004 production is not one of them, at least not on stage anyway. The opening scene features lots of stage movement with the Rhinemaidens wearing what appears to be diving outfits sliding with real water flowing down an angled stage floor. And in the third scene we get to see lots of action and movement on a partitioned stage representing the caverns of the Nibelungen.

On this recording, listeners can experience some of the magic that was present on the night of the performance. Unfortunately, the recording does not convey a lot of the visual energy, and I couldn't help feeling whilst listening to the discs that I was listening to the soundtrack of a film without the benefit of the pictures.

As usual, the recording is technically faultless and superb. I get the feeling I can hear every note played by every instrument in the orchestra, and hear every last nuance in the voices. The overall sound is rather rich, deep, and luscious, and the voices is particular have a lot of body due to reverb. My only quibble is that the overall tone can sound just a bit boomy in the lower frequencies at times.

However, the performance lacks the excitement and the dramatic presence of the Solti version on Decca. Of course, the Solti recording had the benefit of being a studio production rather than a live performance, and producer John Culshaw took the opportunity to turn it into a sonic showcase, including adding artificial reverb to Alberich's voice when he was wearing the Tarnhelm helmet and lots of sound effects, including anvils ringing and thunder claps. Although some have criticised the Solti Ring as being too "gimmicky" with it's use of studio techniques, it does have two advantage over many recordings of live performances (including this one): a superbly balanced orchestral tone and singers that are not distracted by the requirements of on-stage movements.

The comparison between the Adelaide SA-CD and the Solti recording is clearly in favour of the latter in the first scene, where the Solti version has the magnificent horns blaring over the deep E-flat bass, which sounds majestic and yet ominous at the same time. In comparison, the horns in the Adelaide version sound rather muted and die down rather quickly, and the exchanges between Alberich and the Rhinemaidens sound rather wooden compared to the playful and yet cruel flirting that goes on in the Solti version. The SA-CD is also "marred" by the lots of "crackle" (which, believe it or not, is the microphones interpreting the sound of running water on stage) and footfalls, which effectively dispel the illusion of the characters swimming around in the Rhine. These kind of noises made sense during the live performance, but perhaps less forgivable in the context of a recording (although they are far less intrusive on the stereo mix compared to the surround).

Fortunately, the next scene, featuring Wotan and Fricka, was much better, probably because the cast could focus on the singing instead of stage movements. The orchestra also starts to pick up during this scene and sounds a bit more dynamic and a little less laidback and restrained.

The third scene surprisingly comes across quite well in the recording, and finally the last two scenes are acceptable, though lacking the intensity and the dramatic impact of the Solti version. Unfortunately, both Timothy DuFore (Donner) and John Bröcheler (Wotan) were a bit too relaxed in terms of pitch control in the "He da! He da! He do!" scene for my liking.

Once again, the surround version sounds more transparent and expansive than the stereo version, which in turn makes the CD version sound a bit glassy and anaemic. The surround mix is rather conservative, which is not surprising given that it's a live recording. Some care has been taken to mix the Rhinemaidens so that they literally surround the listener in both the first and last scenes. I can hear the audience chuckling in at least two instances, during the first and third scenes, which I thought was a nice touch and a useful reminder that this is a live performance after all. Incidentally, the relative positions of characters on stage are preserved on both stereo and surround mixes which was a nice touch.

In summary then, this set is still worthwhile collecting, especially if you intend to own the complete cycle when it is fully released (15 discs), but is not beyond reproach. I can now understand why Melba chose to release Die Walküre as the first title in the collection. After hearing Die Walküre, one can accept some of the faults in this recording, but I suspect I might be less forgiving if this was the first title released.

The next title scheduled for release is Siegfried early in 2007 followed by Götterdammerung in the middle of the year. This review is based on an copy supplied by Melba Recordings in late October 2006 just after the official launch.

Copyright © 2006 Christine Tham and SA-CD.net


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Y cuando lo tenga,intentaré poner mis impresiones.

Dará la casualidad que la voy a tener junto a la de Solti......

En el informe anterior,la recomiendan escuchar antes que la de Solti,pues parece más abordable por los neófitos como yo.

A parte la comparación va a ser cd stereo contra multicanal,del cual habla muy,muy bien

Ya veremos.

Puede ser una experiencia enriquecedora........


Saludo

Sisco


Por cierto Mozart,donde se podría encontrar un libreto del anillo en español??????????

Iniciado por stersa

Por cierto Mozart,donde se podría encontrar un libreto del anillo en español??????????

Aquí la tienes: la mejor traducción al castellano del Anillo, hecha por un gran especialista en Wagner ... y es bilingüe, alemán-español. Hazme caso Stersa, hazte con ella, son sólo 25 eurillos y es INDISPENSABLE para disfrutar del Anillo como si estuvieras leyendo una novela.

http://www.casadellibro.com/fichas/f...+DE+LOS+DIOSES

Saludos

Gracias otra vez, Mozart.

Mi mujer ,ha tenido el detalle de regalarme el libro. Mañana me lo comprará

Un saludo cordial

Sisco

Una cosa.............tiene algún parecido con el sr de los anillos?????????

Estan hablando del poder del anillo y de la codicia de gigantes,caballeros,etc. para conseguirlo.

Un saludo cordial

Sisco

Ya se que no salen Orcos......

Iniciado por stersa

Una cosa.............tiene algún parecido con el sr de los anillos?????????

Estan hablando del poder del anillo y de la codicia de gigantes,caballeros,etc. *para conseguirlo.

Un saludo cordial

Sisco

Ya se que no salen Orcos......

Pues más bien el Señor de los Anillos se inspira en la Tetralogía Wagneriana. El anillo confiere poder al que lo posee, pero también corrompe al que lo codicia: primero a Fasolt, el gigante, que mata a su hermano Fafner (o era al revés?) para obtenerlo, y luego a muchos otros (no te la voy a contar jeje).

Tolkien, como sabes, era un catedrático de Oxford, especialista en filología pero también en mitos y leyendas de la Europa del norte. Como el mismo dijo una vez, sus historias se alimentaban de todo lo que había leido. También echaba de menos que su Inglaterra adoptiva no tuviese una mitología propia a diferencia de Alemania, así que inventó una, y se alimento "de todo lo que había leído". Claramente el anillo de Tolkien es una copia del anillo del Nibelungo.

Y en cuanto a los orcos, pues es verdad que no hay orcos, pero hay nibelungos, que son uns seres bastante repugnantes :-)

Saludos

Vamos bien,pues me encanta el tema del sr de los anillos.....

Buenos,vamos a esperar a tenerlo y escucharlo.......

Ya iré comentando.

Otra recomendación


El libro es mejor leerlo durante o antes de la escucha???

Sisco

Iniciado por stersa

El libro es mejor leerlo durante o antes de la escucha???

Sisco

Durante!!! Te pones cómodo en el sofá, con los patucos y la copa de cognac cerca, y vas siguiendo la historia y los diálogos del libreto con la música de Wagner de banda sonora de la lectura